Coming of the new God
7 April 2009
Deotay village in Samtse is seven hours walk from Phuentsholing. Out of 42 Tamang households, six are Christians and devout followers of Langu Dema, 70, their mondali (community head) and preacher. Langu Dema has been practising and preaching Christianity in her village since the early 1980s. She said it was easy to convert a whole family if one member could be converted.
Langu Dema regularly visits the Indian town of Jaigaon to receive instructions from the pastors there. She said that, during Christmas, more than 2000 Bhutanese believers visit Jaigaon. “Among them, there are many people from other parts of Bhutan,” she said.
A Jaigaon businessman said that a few pastors came to his office to send emails to their sponsors abroad. “I have heard that they are paid for converting people from the Himalayan region but there is no proof,” he said.
Some Christians said that pastors were paid by Christian trusts for converting more than four people to Christianity.
But the pastors denied the allegation.
However, sources say that, in the name of Jesus, some people across the border are making quick money. In Jaigaon, some individuals receive money from Christians in the west for sending pictures of non-Bhutanese in Bhutanese dress, portrayed as new converts.
Samuel Dahal is a Protestant pastor based in Jaigaon. A registered preacher of a Christian trust based in Hyderabad, India, Samuel said the motto of his trust was to pass the message of Jesus to p1as many Himalayan people as possible. He added that he had visited Paro and Thimphu a few times. “Every pastor has different areas to cover,” he said, adding that there was “a good number” of pastors in Bhutan who could do the job.
“We get rewarded for our good work, in cash or in kind, not necessarily from abroad but also from within,” said A T Thomas, another pastor in Jaigaon. He said that, if someone started a charity, there was financial help. But he added that the money was not for converting people but for doing good work.
Gracy, a Bhutanese preacher, moves around the country preaching Pentecostal form of Christianity. She said she did not receive a salary but got travel allowances from the church. She said, “We don’t receive money from outside but raise our own.”
Samuel Dahal said Roman Catholic must be paying some individuals for their education, but it is not necessarily for conversion. Every Christian contributes 10 percent of their monthly earning to the church. The money is used for payment of pastors and preachers.
There are no churches in Bhutan but people gather in a rented house or apartment to pray and conduct meetings.
Sheb Tshering, a Lhob from Samtse, said the Christian preachers are well-versed in languages and there is no need to pay someone to convert.
“Their sweet words will lure you,” he said.
Tshering (first name withdrawn on request), a born Protestant, said there were a lot of pastors in Bhutanese towns like Thimphu, preaching in Dzongkha, Sarchhopkha, Khengkha and Lhotshamkha, among others.
Believers said they were relieved when Bhutan adopted its constitution which guaranteed freedom of religion. However, they said that they respected the constitution and did not propagate Christianity forcefully. Many Indian pastors have visited Bhutan to preach on invitation by their friends and believers.
Sources said Christianity had made inroads into the interior dzongkhags as well. In Pemagatshel, a pastor from Jaigoan is reportedly behind the conversion of a family of seven. The father of the family said domestic reasons led his family to conversion.
Regarding the recent killing of a woman by a Christian community in Samtse, pastor J S Chhetri from Jaigaon said it was out of ignorance of the religion.
Pastor Joel said that the BiBible says there is an evil spirit in a person if he or she shows unusual body language and acts differently. “But we treat the person with prayers and love,” he said.
Meanwhile, Bamlash Tamang from Samtse said he was planning to convert to Christianity because some pastors from Jaigaon visited his village to preach but he had not seen anyone receiving money for conversion.
Jas Raj Tamang from Jenchu village in Samtse said the poor and sick converted to Christianity because they received a lot of financial help. He added that pastors visited the village to perform rituals for the dead and give financial help to the believers.
According to Gup Drep Krisna Tamang, when community people follow different faiths, problems arise with regards to funeral rites. He said that there were instances where some members of a family buried a dead body while others unearthed and burnt it.
J B Basnet, a Hindu civil servant in Thimphu, said conversion to Christianity meant refraining from alcohol and tobacco and helping one another in times of need. But there were many problems if everyone in the family did not follow the same religion.
There are instances of conversion leading to divorces. Priya Pradhan is a class VII student. Her father is a Hindu and her mother, a Christian. She said her parents quarrelled every night before getting divorced.
Priya studies in Jaigaon in a Christian missionary school. “My teacher receives money from my sponsor and I don’t have to pay school fees,” she said.
Tshering Yeshey from Sinchula in Chhukha said he did not have any bad feeling against Christians but forceful conversion and labelling non-Christians as Satan was unacceptable.
Some recent Christian converts in Pachhu in Chhukha said they had converted to Christianity because their former religion was too expensive, especially during marriage, lo chhoe and funeral.
The Director of Department of Culture, Dorji Tshering, said that, as long as there is no forceful conversion, the constitution guarantees the freedom of religion. “If it doesn’t disturb peace and harmony in the country, any religion is acceptable,” he said, adding that the international media’s allegations against Bhutan’s restrictive religious freedom are baseless.
By Rabi C. Dahal
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i have nothing against any religion but I have seen people convincing others to convert to Christians….if God is one why convert people to one or another religion?
Great!! Western people hardly go to church any more and they are try to convert the religion from other countries…..
At no point of time can the whole world be converted into one religious faith. It has never happened even when Jesus Christ was life n kicking the earth or when lord Buddha was preaching and so forth and it wil never happen. So no matter how much money is being pump in to convert people to a diffrent faith, one thing is for sure… it will never happen.
Its something like that at one side of the globe.. poor, innocent and ignorent poeple get converted to one faith while at the other side of the globe….rich, well educated, wel informed peole get carried away by a different faith, and yet some other people to another religious faith.
Religion should serve humanity not the other way round. All religions are equal and they all teach basically the same; not to harm others, compassion, respect for self and others, loving kindness. So i think its we humans who make too much of a fuss about religion.
Lets do like this.. practice your religion.. and let others practice their religion… dont convert….we need diversity.
Do not get alarmed on what is happening, just reflect on where we are lacking. This calls for our Dratshang Lhentshog and Lamas to wake up. Ever wondered why westerners in large numbers are embracing buddhism ? I guess it is the mode of delivery and the simple practice propogated by the lamas who go there.
Also it is high time that we encourage the practice of “Socially Engaged buddhism”. (Those who are interested in knowing more about it can find out using google).
(This is the edited version of the above comments. There were some editorial mistakes on the comments above)
I have learnt somewhere that converts are more violent than those who are born with the religion. When a person is born, like first sound of language, he absorbs some elements of religion too. However, when a person converts, he converts because he was not satisfied with the previous religion he followed. Therefore, they always believe that the new religion is better than the old one. Unconsciously, they harbour hatred for the old one. In the process, they shed the old one and fail to arrive at the new one because the main purpose of religion to love and discard hatred is defeated. Consider that you write something on a book with a pencil. You can erase the writing, there is no doubt about it. And you can also write with new pencil or pen. But no matter how best you erase the first writing, there are always some traces left. Many people are not always soft on erasing the mistakes. If you watch your child do the rubbing on his/ her mistakes on book, you will notice it. Even otherwise, the book do sustain the impact of erasing it.
Sometimes, during the process of erasing the first writings, the paper often gets torn. In the process of proselytization, same thing tend to happen .We are not only confusing ourselves but our children and their children.
A gho that suits one may not suit another. A religion in same way offers the same perspective. What is good to one will not always be good to another. So why proselytize people?
To be able to understand religion, one needs certain level of understanding. Without some motivation, people will not change. And that motivation I guess is the cash and kind people get while being proselytized. Like in any business, string is attached and that string is proselytization. It doesnt end there. People end up living confused and pass on the confusion to the rest of their generations. Indirectly, we are breeding grounds for violence in the future. This is what happened in Orissa in India recently.
Chew on it well while I chew doma.
Tshering
Like Girl has pointed out, if Gods has same motive, why convert them into different name. If their mission is to help why cant they do it without having to convert them. I am sure God, if any, has his heart big enough to tolerate helping without such conditions.
I am a Buddhist. Buddhism says you can go to church, mosque or any other institutions as long as he or she is following the truth. Why cant christains be open like this? Why don’t they let people analyze and let them choose on their own? This problem with Christians is not only here in Bhutan but elsewhere also (for eg. recent case in India). I watched a Christian show in TV, the pastor says it is not our job to know the whole thing but leave it for god. I do not understand. People in the west are asking questions and Christianity has failed to answer, so many have become either atheists or changed their faith. Whereas here in Buddhism, we encourage people to ask questions. Great minds have always asked questions for instance Einstein. You can google it.
Christians believe that there is only one “god,” and he’s the almighty and the most powerful who created the world and each and every one of us on this planet. If that were true, why couldn’t he create a world where everybody is a Christian. If I was created by “god,’ then why am I not a Christian. Whatever happened to his powers! That would have saved a lot of trouble of converting people of other faiths. That would have saved that poor lady in Dorokha.
My only guess is that he wanted to witness some fun and drama from up above. In that case, he is just as mean as some of us humans. What GOD would consider animals as food for humans? What GOD would consider non-Christians satans, and what GOD would send them to hell. After all, he supposedly created all of us. And interestingly, as powerful as he may be, he failed to create a world full of Christians. And that says something about him.
Here is a food for thought: How come the “GOD” is a man. If there is such a thing as the GOD, I would think it should be a she and not he. AND by the way, who created GOD? He’s got to come from somewhere. How come he enjoys all the luxury and fancies of some human beings! What did he do that he deserves all our devotion. Bring us the answer!!!
Incase of Buddhism, one is considered a Bodhisattva, only after he/she gains enlightenment. And enlightenment doesn’t come easy. There is a lot of hard work involved. BTW, god, in Buddhist terms, does not refer to an enlightened being. So may be the GOD is just one of those, in which case, it is not worth our devotion. Buddhism may not be for everybody, but it makes damn good sense. Leave it at that…
PLease, people. Let us not grow hatred over this matter, please. like tshering dorji mentioned. i urge all of us to please before commenting read what he has written. and surely it does ring true. i mean look at orissa. what happened there? does anybody have any idea? one person’s life is precious so lets just pray for evrybody’s peace and live in harmony,yeah….
no one can change u unless u want to change urself,…so why do people go around preaching n trying to convert them from any other religion to christan when you know that you won’t do it if you are asked to convert yourself to muslim or hindu or any other religion.if one look at it clearly n analyse it…all the gods and religions are same…its just that you view it from different angle n name it differently…lets say the god or the religion is a mountain..the people living in the south of that mountain name it bhuddist,north name it hindu,west name it christan n like wise east name it muslim…but at the end of the day what they call it differently is the same god…and what they follow is the same thing…
so just stop preaching and be content with what you are…don’t try to create problems discriminating other religions and making your religion superior.
New religions making inroads is a dangerous trend because of the narrow view of the practitioners. An innocent woman would not have been battered to death if the followers were genuinly religious. Authorities really need to take it seriously. I simply have the feeling that it is cult and not religion that is being propagated. I just believe in the fact that no individual rights should infringe the bond in the society which has existed for centuries. Freedom of practicing one’s faith is definitely not a licence to coax and convert people thereby causing hatred and violence in the society.
I think the essence of all religion is compassion and tolerance. An attempt to convert others is neither showing compassion nor practicing tolerance.
Is the right granted in the constitution as many claim simply a misinterpretation by different people? Is the individual right more important than the national ones? Are the so called internationally accepted benchmarks necessarily good for Bhutan? We know that we are being admired the world over because we followed our own path that is good for Bhutanese people. Today the success thus far is being tested by the freedom granted by constitution.
Its time politicians and the legislative body take serious note of what is happening around before it is too late.
one false step,……which is bound to take place ….. drive them out of Bhutan
How about another New god? Muslim.
So that we can getup early in the morning faced to the sunrise and started praying Alaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa HuaiAkubard.
give your picture and name list to church and robe them as much as you can saying you have converted to christin though you will be practicing buddhism inside.
give all the pictures you get and give different names just to send you more fees.
all the best.
karma dechan…i liked your wisdom which is developed through mountain….I respect you
kelzang…be politiciam may…you are above our bhutanes politician in this regards
kelzang…be politician may…you are above our bhutanes politician in this regard
guys, i am a buddhist and i think people are converting because thier karma of being a buddhist is exhausted and thier other karmas are starting. so, just let it be ,,,,and in the meantime we can do our own practise for all sentient beings to be free from suffering. if few buddhist chant om mani padme hung or om ah hung benza guru padme siddi hung , this is more beneficial for others than just blabbering mena friends. sorry, didn’t mean to offend any of you.
There is no point of practicing other than the state religion in a country like ours where there are handly 600,000 plus citizens. As long as you are bhutanese you should learn to adopt with the state practices. But evrything seem to be going other ways round.
Firstly, they aren’t a genuine citizens and secondly are against the state religion. Oh! what a people creating problem all over the world.
Hi everyone,
Let’s not breed hatred, instead let’s fulfill our obligations to sow peace. For we will reap peace if we sow peace. But the harvest will be hatred, if we plant hatred. Having said this, I would like to appeal everyone to be more sober and wise in giving your critics. Some of you sound very un-Buddhist and un-Bhutanese to me (sorry for that), at least from your comments. How much of Buddhism do you know and practice, by the way? No human beings are perfect and so do religions. Therefore, it is very important for all of us to be gentle, tolerant and loving towards each other.
Every citizen has a right by virtue of our Constitution to choose ones own faith and belief based on his/her conviction. However, one has to co-exist peacefully with our fellow-citizens. One must be loyal to the country and work for the overall development of our nation. To me it does not matter which religion you belong to. For instance I have lots of Buddhist and Christian friends alike and neither of them are all perfect, but they are good people and good friends of mine. And also they are productive and constructive citizens of our country. How about you?
Hi everyone,
Let’s not breed hatred, instead let’s fulfill our obligations to sow peace. For we will reap peace if we sow peace. But the harvest will be hatred, if we plant hatred. Having said this, I would like to appeal everyone to be more sober and wise in giving your critics. Some of you sound very un-Buddhist and un-Bhutanese to me (sorry for that), at least from your comments. How much of Buddhism do you know and practice, by the way? No human beings are perfect and so do religions. Therefore, it is very important for all of us to be gentle, tolerant and loving towards each other.
I am confident that our Visionary King and those who assisted him in his initiative to write our Constitution are very wise and they knew what is best for the country. So let’s continue to respect and have confidence in our Constitution. Every citizen has a right by virtue of our Constitution to choose ones own faith and belief based on his/her conviction. However, one has to co-exist peacefully with our fellow-citizens. One must be loyal to the country and work for the overall development of our nation. To me it does not matter which religion you belong to. For instance I have lots of Buddhist and Christian friends alike and neither of them are all perfect, but they are good people and good friends of mine. And also they are productive and constructive citizens of our country. How about you?
It’s really really sad to hear what’s happening in Bhutan. Buddhism is an atheist religion, in fact, many buddhist teachers hesitate to catogorize in religion also. We don’t believe in Gods as a creator. Mind is the creator! But we believe that there something deep which we beings lack to understand. And because buddhism not just a faith oriented, we have a lot of buddhist philosophy to actually prove that there is deeper reality than what we believe it to be. And that is known as the ultimate truth; emptiness or whatever buddha-nature or whatever you will like to call it. All the statues, deities, and rituals have deeper meaning too than just an outer form. But of course we don’t study those. Lack of interest or lack of teachers to teach those. I believe that it is because of monks residing in those dzongs being very conservative and not coming out to really teach the youngsters. I don’t know how long will they go along like that if they don’t have a support from the people in the future. And more than their survival, how long will the teachings of Buddha dharma survive if nobody really put interest in making young people understand it. I believe that the teaching our prince siddhartha gave 2500+ year ago is the most valuable gift we have on this planet earth. It strikes you to look for the truth not to hide under some blind-faith. In the west people are converting themselves from Chirtianity to atheisism, buddhism or Hinduism. And they have reasons. This is a religion where guilt of being a sinner is so much emphasized. And seriously do you want to feel guilty of being a sinner and live life with fear whole live? In Buddhism we talk about Buddha-nature. And all beings have that. All beings can become Buddha because that is our true nature. (We have whole bunch of philosophy written by indian scholars on buddha-nature and emptiness. We shuold study them not only monks.) The whole samsara is just like a dream. You can wake up from it. And that waking up is called Buddha. So when you become Buddha, it’s not that you’ve become God also. Buddha is not a god but the complete realization of the truth – an awakened mind.
The monks should really change the way they are preserving the dharma at present. They should think about future generation, buddhist people and buddhism. I’m really saddened by this article. Young people should never convert to chirstianity because it’s cool or they give you food and money. We have to preserve our culture and wisdom which is the most valuable in this whole world. Because of our culture and wisdom, we have such a philosophy as GNH. And we should promote and preserve those. And we can serve the whole humanity with those.
Love and peace*
there should be religious freedom in the country BUT THERE SHOULD BE ANTI-CONVERSION LAWS TOO!!
WE NEED ANTI-CONVERSION LAW IN BHUTAN!!
the big gun of monastic body has approved propagation of christianity,I think personally,because being them buddhist they don’t go for partiality.other I don’t think so.
why we should get alarmed just because somebody is going to convert us to them unless we are not theirs. i deal with many of my christian friends and i find they are happy with my religion Buddhism and i too is not finding any fault in their religion but what i merely see in who somebody tries to convert someone to theirs religion is not cultivating religion but a mere commercial job of earning livelihood and mostly in an around the world many of us has omitted the main aim of practicing religion but began as a job to earn. i mean if the person who is under the process of conversion is wise enough they will surely not go for this. i am Buddhist and i trust Buddhism not because i am born Buddhist but as the principle statement of Buddhism i find and has conviction that its strongly true.so we must feel others view is also true as much as we feel,and this is what Buddhism is where nothing is differentiated.
hello every one, no religion is bad. which religion do you all think preaches you to do bad, kill people, tell lie,…..etc. it is all the different forms of same thing. people of bhutan call it as buddhism (majority), people of india call it as hinduism, people of europe call it as christianity, people of arab countries call it as islam and people of china and a few latin american countries call it as Atheist. should there be god at all, it is one and not just mighty but HE IS ALMIGHTY. you have the freedom to admire any form of this ALMIGHTY, so follow which ever is sharukh khan for you. in my understanding, to disregard other religion itself is against the very philosophy of buddhism if you are a real buddhist at heart.
Unless you learn to understand your true nature of mind, your true identity, no matter how many times you convert to how many different religions, you will come to one same destination – being lost. So, will you continue letting yourself lost in this samsara?
we like buddhist and we are buddhist,why to flow christianity?????????????
we bron as bhutanese.bhutanese them self making fool yeah
New God is coming up when old God, being asked for formers entrance, boldly believes in impartiality, where he is left with no option but to welcome for part of his place.
its just so obvious that christianity has to pay to make people believe all those wondrous gospel stories but hey, see this way. Missionaries traveling half the world preaching what they believe and giving away food and money to those who could definitely use an extra hand. I mean if i had a domestic problem and cant sustain my family, you cant blame me for changing my faith. Right? thats my choice regardless of what ever the heck society would say. Now thats my freedom of religion but anyway my point is, thats totally a wrong approach to god, well if there is one. I think those pastors and missionaries need to be educated!. so they would live their life in peace and stop worrying about the worldly religion. personally, it dont matter to me. religion is too personal for me regardless of which ever god and faith we are refering to. To all the readers i would say, if you are doing it, do it whole heartedly or else just dont and respect that either way. dont be too judgmental on a persons character cos their faith is different from ours or yours. Cheers everybody.
Hey everyone living in Bhutan, u all are buddhist, no place for christan…..
only those few southern Bhutanese and some other group of people who really deserve life imprisonment or exile are happy with the christanity …..I say go to hell for christanity….
hello everyone
better take a precuation before it becomes a worst scene in our country. Look, example in other country how it is happening just because of a religion and simple example that happened at samtse last time . SO WE ARE BORN AS BHUTANESE, BE A BHUDDHIST” ” ON E PEOPLE ONE NATION , ONE RELIGION, ONE CULTURE,……….. AND BE AS STRONG ON NATION”
honestly we all should respect all religions cos they teach people to be good but I cant stand it when people tried to convert others n christianity is the religion that loved to convert others and they can never show basic respect to others religion n rights. if christianity is that good n fantastic, i don’t see the need that u guys had to run everywhere in the world trying to convert others. do u know that u make yr own religion so cheap n low class cos always running around to beg others join yr religion. others told me that a christian volunteer in spore even kneel down to beg a guy to join the religion on the street, so do u think that is something u can feel proud of????
anys christians talk crap all the times n basically they dun even talk common sense and i feel pity for them…… as simple as that is others will respect U when U can show respect to them too.. so all bhutanese must stand united as ONE all the times and and dun be so easily taken in by sweet talk by intruders!!! if u guys can understand the meaning of life, am sure u won’t ever be easliy being convert by others!!!!
It is so nice to rread this article!!
THESE POEPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO CONVERT INNOCENT SOULS INTO OTHER RELIGION DO NOT KNOW THE REAL MEANING OF RELIGION.
I SAY THEY DONOT AT ALL KNOW WHAT RELIGION IS…..WHAT GOD IS…. WHAT TRUTH IS…..
IF THEY HAVE EXPERIENCED THE ESSENSE OF GOD, THEN THEY NEEDNOT HAVE TO ACT LIKE THESE……
IF ANY ONE IS ABOUT TO MOVE INTO IT…….THEN TAKE MY WORD
” THESE POEPLE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT SIPRITUALITY & RELIGION…. YOU ARE BEING FOOLED BY THEM”
YOUNTEN
Hi fellow friends you will never end up your talkings regardings religions and you will never find end solution for the problems of the religions. We are all playing the drama on this earth that is assigned by your karma of previous birth. Or the God has sent us to find the end solution of the religion to make the world as one reigions. That is why we all are on the process of finding the correct religion to born as human being on the next life.
joining Christianity means short termly benefited that even soccer can do.
however not so truly benefited.
bhudhhism ,christainity or any other religions of the world do not contradict so much when it comes to the philosophical concept of its teachings.all the religions does not belief in killing or hating eacother. they all belief in one thing i.e, to love all. so there is no need of conversion. yes the christains who tend to encircle the innocent bhudhists under their dominance should understand that the feild of religion does not entertain the making of other alien people forcefully to belief what they belief
Mental transformations ought to be encouraged. Why forbid people to believe as their conscience tells them? Those who call for making conversion illegal are really very much in the business of controlling other people’s minds. If by anti-conversion laws you mean just that people should be forbidden to use money or property as a way of persuading people to change religion… Well, I agree with you there! But if it just means passing along literature and talking to other people. That’s what we mean by freedom. Buddhism accepts mental transformations as part of life in sangsara, and as necessary for dealing with it. A little Lojong is really in order here. And some flexibility, thinking how different things help different people at different stages of their spiritual development.
I don’t blame those who are converting to christians, i blame ourselves and our religious system, Budhhist, so-called mahayanists have become cultist and we even didn’t have highly respected hindu priest for hindu to respect and clear their doubts though all of us know that Buddhism sprung out of hinduism though some buddhist religious fanatics will disagree.
Besides, cost of being buddhist has become so high. Idol worshiping, feeding thousands of monk from our tax, disciple walking lama who is giving wang to collect money.. so called wangyoen in their bulky sack, indisciplined monks bragging and flirting with girls, lots of money are wasted on building monuments.
Mahayanist Buddhism also affect freedom of belief, You cannot argue against your teachers, sign of Khandom (beautiful woman) to be exploited by young truelku who know more about anatomy woman than meaning of religion, the theory re-incarnation, which are more than one which led to confusions, the motive behind nominating reincarnation.
so, it is better to change orthodox concept of our religion( both buddhism and hinduism) than talking aboout curtailing their right to choose religion through some laws.
have you ever found our venerable lamas trying to build charity house and help lesser beings other than their, “Tharpai Gophang) teaching though they couldn’t attain themselves but fool people in believing that they came back for well-being of sentients being. if there is so-called re-incarnation, they came in well-being of their majestic monastery.
Believe it or not, most of what our lama practise are not taught by Buddha. you can called it as progressive teachings just like christians paid fare(conversion fee) to gateway of Heaven.
please continue to debate, and to question, it’s good. i live in the u.s.a. and am 52 years old. after much corruption in the catholic/christian church here i left many years ago for Buddhism. this allows me to learn more,and to be more compassionate.our last president even used dreams in his christianity to take us to war! christians feel they must convert the entire world to their belief system.please don’t let that happen to you. diverisity is a wonderful thing. we should respect and love each other and understand as Lord Buddha said lessons are taught in many ways so people of different ways may understand.thus i allow my christian brothers to learn in their own way, but i must correct them when they try to push this onto everyone else. also, please, there are many so called christian movements in america reaching out all over the world but only to keep up multi billion dollar churches and incomes. they are caught regularily here but continue to operate. so please be careful. we always think things are better someplace else, but wake up to find out it is not always so. peace and coexist from america,,,,,rick….
hi,
religion, no religion.. Buddhism no Buddhism, christian no christian……..so on and so forth…. doing something good for all the sentient being should not meant that they should be what you are.. all the gods are same and one. help the sentient being you are equal to the god.
nothing is beautiful than to realize that everything is good..
Hi ! everyone ..I respect all the religion …but bhutan must be remain only buddhist country. I think all our bhutanese citizen must protect our own religion ( buddhisim ) . Don’t let other religion to involve in our beautiful religion and peaceful country bhutan. If we do not care about this matter then it will cause many problem within country in near future .
jimi
Hi ! everyone ..I respect all the religion …but bhutan must be remain only buddhist country. I think all our bhutanese citizen must protect our own religion ( buddhisim ) . Don’t let other religion to involve in our beautiful religion and peaceful country bhutan. If we do not care about this matter then it will cause many problem within country in near future .
jimi
California
USA
buddhism teaches impartiality.so it is a lopehole, that people find it as easy entrance.
I live in America, was broughtup in non-religious house. My parents once sent me to Christian grade school because it was the best school in the town we were in at that time, I had to go to “religion” class as part of the curriculum. This was my least favorite class. One day the teacher made me and another student stand while the rest of the class prayed for us, for “forgiveness” from god because we had not been saved by Jesus Christ. I told my mom, it was a weird experience and shorty afterwards my parents took me out of that “great” school, the whole plan seemed to be to get money from parents, and propagate ridiculous ideas.
I am just saying that it is really good to examine what Christians say. Then I think that most people will feel that they want to remain Buddhist. And really, if you can limit the amount of Christians, that would probably be best. They are much different in how that operate in life and if you are too gentle with them, they will not appreciate it, but will take advantage. All they want to do is convert people.
Anita
Hello,
A lot of the things said about Christianity and Christians do not describe true christians. There are many people in the world, that say they are christian, but that does not make them christian.
The truth is, we are all going to die one day. Every one of us, Buddhist, christian, Hindu, athiest, it doesnt matter what you believe, this life will end for you one day. That is where the idea of all religions being basically the same thing with a different name (like the mountain analogy that “karma dechan” said) falls apart. Sure all religions lead people to live the same life style, dont kill or steal, live at peace with each other, stuff like that. But the difference is why we should do that. Most religions say to do so that God will approve of your life, or do it so that us humans can live happily together.
True Christians, however, say that God is “holy” and “righteous”. this means that there is nothing bad in him. Not that he is under some law that is above him that says he cant do bad things, but that who he is is someone who doesnt do the bad things. And so christians say that nobody can be as holy and righteous as he is, so nobody can go to heaven.
So true christians say that Jesus Christ was sent by God as his son and lived a perfect life as a human, and then died and literally took the punishment that each of us deserve for the life we have lived. So now we do the good things we do, not because we are trying to please God, or not because we are trying to make humanity better, but because we are so thankfull for what God has done for us. even though we didnt deserve it.
And that is also why true christians go to other countries to share their beliefs. Not to earn money, or to bring trouble. but to tell the good news (“gospel” means good news) that they know to other people.
To seek a path of religion or faith, one must be clear of the path. Else you are following it blindly. I try to absorb whatever good is there from any religion. Not necessarily go to extreme cases.
Interestingly I reached to a point: “What did Jesus do between age of 12 and 30″?
There is so many vague assumptions online. But no concrete answer.
We know that Buddha did.
correction please
the last line is suppose to be ” We know what Buddha did”
In the muslim world where there is more radicalism the Christian converters find little space to make their move. So it is in the less developed countries like Bhutan where people are more open hearted it is easy for them to make inroads and they lure the poor people and convert them. Where there is natural calamity they find it great oppurtunity to arm themselves with goodies/relief materials and convert people in the guise of helping the victims like during the Tsunami they did. The Evangicals are quite notorious in this regard. Interestingly, in their own country the more educated and more well-off people are turning towards Buddhism. I am not against Christianity in general but I strongly believe that Bhutan should be a Buddhist country only. The people of Bhutan should be more alert in this regard.
Bhutan should protect its people from others encroaching in their land and converting their people to christianity with money and other lurements and upsetting the pecentage of the Buddhist population. Focus on good education and cherish your beautiful culture n religion.
I feel like to add up something in this debate, when Muslims defend their religion as and when threaten they were called called terrorist or lunatic, because they are been deprived off their rights and sovereignty of land. We say a Muslim country and we’ll find the same percent Muslim and tradition, culture and customs as well dress code than other. And to the horrific tragedy of Pakistan recently in the forceful conversion many Sikhs were decapitated. But this is Bhutan always known as a Buddhist country we are compassionate one cant restore to such action least keep the name the country has in history.
Keep it in original.
some more later.
Christianity is at its root Buddhism, except the Christian religious institutions have the agenda of social engineering. Also they place the filter or clergy as the sole agent of the spirit and master gatekeeper between the flock and ‘God’ ….,
Until the time of Jesus Christ, Ashoka and Nalanda was the source of spiritual knowledge. The greeks practiced buddhist style debating, the Stoics were for all intents and purposes “Buddhists”. Then along came Rome, who wanted to establish control over all things, one of which being religion.
(Rome couldn’t control people who were thinking they were ‘God’ like, so the established the ‘trinity’ and subsequently blasphemy…,)
It served their purpose then and it still serves their purpose today.
Some info about the western evolution of spiritual philosophy:
___________________________________________________
“Posidonius was a Buddhist” by Andrew Semple -
“Man is disturbed not by things, but by the views he takes of them.”
- Epictetus
“Reconcile my Grumpa’s dream
perceive it all as one
An empty view, precedes you.
Dance a thought,
rippling in eternity
Feel the weight, it cannot be seen.
Alexandria lay the mind to rest
A warring vision, born complete
Sowing clear perception
at sand worn, humble, feet.”
- Andrew Semple
For Posidonius, the Stoic, categorization of philosophy was divided into physics (natural philosophy, including metaphysics and theology), logic (including dialectic), and ethics. These three categories for him were, in Stoic fashion, inseparable and interdependent parts of an organic, natural whole. He compared them to a living being, with physics the meat and blood, logic the bones and tendons which held the organism together, and ethics – the most important part – the soul. His philosophical grand vision was that the universe itself was similarly interconnected, as if an organism, through cosmic “sympathy”, in all respects from the development of the physical world to the history of humanity.
The idea was to be free of suffering through apatheia (Greek: ἀπάθεια) or peace of mind (literally,’without passion’), where peace of mind was understood in the ancient sense — being objective or having “clear judgment” and the maintenance of equanimity in the face of life’s highs and lows.
Valid perception & Ultimate truth
The stoics were sharing the Dharma brought back to Greece at the time of Alexander. God, as the world-creating entity is personalised in Christian thought, but Stoicism equates God with the totality of the universe.
“Make for yourself a definition or description of the thing which is presented to you, so as to see distinctly what kind of a thing it is in its substance, in its nudity, in its complete entirety, and tell yourself its proper name, and the names of the things of which it has been compounded, and into which it will be resolved. For nothing is so productive of elevation of mind as to be able to examine methodically and truly every object which is presented to you in life, and always to look at things so as to see at the same time what kind of universe this is, and what kind of use everything performs in it, and what value everything has with reference to the whole.
The universe itself is god and the universal outpouring of its soul; it is this same world’s guiding principle, operating in mind and reason, together with the common nature of things and the totality which embraces all existence; then the foreordained might and necessity of the future; then fire and the principle of aether; then those elements whose natural state is one of flux and transition, such as water, earth, and air; then the sun, the moon, the stars; and the universal existence in which all things are contained.
Constantly regard the universe as one living being, having one substance and one soul; and observe how all things have reference to one perception, the perception of this one living being; and how all things act with one movement; and how all things are the cooperating causes of all things that exist; observe too the continuous spinning of the thread and the structure of the web.”
- Zeno
The ancient Stoics are often misunderstood because the terms they used pertained to different concepts in the past than they do today. The word ‘stoic’ has come to mean ‘unemotional’ or indifferent to pain, because Stoic ethics taught freedom from ‘passion’ by following ‘reason.’ The Stoics did not seek to extinguish emotions, rather they sought to transform them by a resolute ‘askēsis’ which enables a person to develop clear judgment and inner calm. Logic, reflection, and concentration were the methods of such self-discipline.”
The Stoics believed in the certainty that knowledge can be attained through the use of reason. Truth can be distinguished from fallacy; even if, in practice, only an approximation can be made. According to the Stoics, the senses are constantly receiving sensations: pulsations which pass from objects through the senses to the mind, where they leave behind an impression (phantasia). The mind has the ability to judge (sunkatathesis) — approve or reject — an impression, enabling it to distinguish a true representation of reality from one which is false. Some impressions can be assented to immediately, but others can only achieve varying degrees of hesitant approval which can be labeled belief or opinion (doxa). It is only through the use of reason that we can achieve clear comprehension and conviction (katalepsis). Certain and true knowledge (episteme), achievable by the Stoic sage, can be attained only by verifying the conviction with the expertise of one’s peers and the collective judgment of humankind.
The Stoics provided a unified account of the world, consisting of formal logic, non-dualistic physics and naturalistic ethics. Of these, they emphasized ethics as the main focus of human knowledge, though their logical theories were to be of more interest for many later philosophers.
Stoicism became the foremost popular philosophy among the educated elite in the Greco-Roman Empire, to the point where, in the words of Gilbert Murray, “nearly all the successors of Alexander [...] professed themselves Stoics.”
In 1204, the library became a target of the knights of the Fourth Crusade. The library itself was destroyed and its contents burned or sold.
Stoic doctrine was a popular and durable philosophy, with a following throughout Greece and the Roman Empire, from its founding until the closing of all philosophy schools in 529AD by order of the Emperor Justinian I, who perceived their pagan character to be at odds with his Christian faith.
Stoic physics refers to the natural philosophy adopted by the Stoic philosophers of ancient Greece and Rome used to explain the natural processes at work in the universe. To the Stoics the universe is a single pantheistic God, but one which is also a material substance. The primitive substance of the universe is a divine essence (pneuma) which is the basis of everything which exists. The separation of force from matter produces a divine fire (aether) which, as the basis of all matter, is differentiated into elements and shaped by the tension caused by the pneuma working according to the divine reason (logos) of the universe. These processes are responsible for the formation, the development, and ultimately, the destruction of the universe in a never-ending cycle (palingenesis). The human soul is an emanation from the fiery aether which permeates the universe, and sensation is transmission of pneuma-currents from objects, which interact with the substance of the mind, which is the soul’s ruling part. The Stoics also recognised the existence of other gods and divine agents as manifestations of the one primitive God-substance.
Ashoka and the ‘Greeks’
Magas is mentioned in the Edicts of Ashoka, as one of the recipients of the Indian Emperor Ashoka the Great’s Buddhist proselytism, although no Western historical record of this event remains Ashoka also claims that he encouraged the development of herbalism, for men and animals, in the territories of the Hellenistic kings
The philosopher Hegesias of Cyrene, from the city of Cyrene where Magas ruled, is sometimes thought to have been influenced by the teachings of Ashoka’s Buddhist missionaries.
“The conquest by Dharma has been won here, on the borders, and even six hundred yojanas (5,400-9,600 km) away, where the Greek king Antiochos rules, beyond there where the four kings named Ptolemy, Antigonos, Magas and Alexander rule, likewise in the south among the Cholas, the Pandyas, and as far as Tamraparni (Sri Lanka).”
- Edicts of Ashoka, 13th Rock Edict, S. Dhammika.
Ashokan dharma as a “religion to be used as a symbol of a new imperial unity and a cementing force to weld the diverse and heterogeneous elements of the empire”.
Buddhism begat Christianity
The Therapeutae of Alexandria were forerunners of early Christian monastic orders.
The Indian emperor Ashoka in his 250 BCE Edicts used the word “eusebeia” as a Greek translation for the central Buddhist concept of “dharma”.
“Eusebeia” was adopted by Christianity to describe the awesome respect due to God and his worship. It is often translated as “godliness” in the New Testament.
Zodhiates says that:
“When eusébeia is applied to the Christian life, it denotes a life that is acceptable to Christ, indicating the proper attitude of the believer toward Christ who has saved him. It is both an attitude and a manner of life.” Spiros Zodhiates
There is no tolerance for debate within the Christian realm.
Debate is a central practice on the path of self realization within buddhism, but it is rebuked in Christianity. Christian religious leaders prefer sheep following in the congregation, not mindful thinkers who will challenge the various dogma and possibly usurp the oligarchy and it’s material control.
Most christian institutions are not much more than corporations promoting vague social ‘pyramid schemes’ for the purpose of material gain.
In my experience, most professional christian clerics are simple, paid performers preaching unquestionable platitudes about social graces and rarely dare to offer teachings on the constructive exploration of personal meditation, mindfulness or valid perception. (or discuss the possibility of enlightenment for all beings). In this respect, Christianity is to spirituality like MacDonald’s is to food; seriously lacking something essential for healthy existence.
Hi!
I am here to jot down something that what i have in my secret brain.”Prevention is better than cure”.As we know that BHutan is the only one country that is pure n faithful Buddhist country all world wide.why u all trying to involve there n bringing a new religion?so i encourage that we have to preserve our own religion as Buddhist as the most precious one and genuiene one.
Its disturbing to learn that Bhutan is in the clutch of well organised plan of the conversion mafia of Cristian church. A small country with small population and limited resources is far too vulnerable in terms of loosing its original culture and faith.
People should understand that half of the problems in India are due to conversion. Bhutan traditionally a Buddhist and Hindu nation has been practicing the culture of peace and coexistence as per the Dharmic tradition, which will not be the case when only 10% of Bhutanese get converted to any of the semitic religions (Christianity and Islam).
Personally I feel piety for this situation, since I love Bhutan, where I have been visiting frequently between 1997 till date. However only the subjects/citizens of Bhutan could do some thing to counter this serious threat to their religion, culture and country.
Kind Regards
Rakesh Ranjan
M. Tech., Ph.D., C.Env. C.Eng. FIES, FRGS, MICE, MASCE, MBHS, MBES, MESA
Environmental Assessment and Management Specialist
196B, Reading Road, Wokingham, Berkshire, RG41 1LH
United Kingdom
Phone No.: +44 – (0) 7787358679
E-mail: rakesh_eia@yahoo.co.uk
Brothers of Bhutan its an opportunity to escape from the false god and dummy religions. Discard your polytheistic faiths, come over to the path of Allah and convert to Islam the only true religion and not to Christian faith.
Allah is only god and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last prophet. The noble Quran is the word of Allah.
The bottom line is this, what does your religion do for you and how then shall we live. For me Jesus Christ brings purpose, peace, pardon and power that I never had before meeting Jesus. Because of my encounter with him, I want to share Him with everyone. He is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, the Rose of Sharon, The Savior, the Son of God, the light, the life, the way, the truth. The Christian life is all about Jesus. He shows us the one true God. Jesus died for the people of all religions of the earth and has provided a way out of sin so we can know God personally. The question is “do you have a relationship with the living God”?
It would be interesting to see how the missionaries’ philosophies would withstand a few days of classic buddhist debate, (as practiced at the monastic universities …,)
In both Christianity and Islam, the dogma absolute, debate is sacrilegious …,
Understanding, believing and applying Buddha’s teachings empower and defy politics.
The dharma philosophies, and our intrinsic buddha nature with potential for enlightenment, is irreconcilable with their teachings because it is the ultimate sin of “blasphemy”, which is very terrible because it unravels the institutions authority as the only agent/manager of god This blasphemy would be difficult to explain.
Buddhism is a mind science as well as a path that has withstood thousands of years of required debate…., we can see how it looks
If the missionaries purpose is anything other than openly debating philosophy, they should be expelled from the country.
Bhutan is “Officially Buddhist” ,
Think about how the Vatican or Mecca would deal with a bunch of buddhists pitching tents eager and actively, trying to gather a flock via shady meetings.
I am an outsider to this debate (I live in the United States), but I know all too much about expansionist Christianity, and care deeply about the future and wellbeing of Bhutan. Put simply and bluntly: Christianity does NOT care for your country, for your culture, or for your people and their problems. Bhutan will only suffer if this school of religious thought gets a grip there.
I urge the leaders of Bhutan to resist any further incursions by missionaries. Bhutan has a rich history and is on the right path in so many ways. It does not need to become subservient to a racist, sexist Western religion built on blood and conquest.
The appeal of Buddhism
Buddhism is one of the fastest growing religions and by some estimates, it is THE fastest growing religion (especially among those who convert from one religion to another).
In 2005 the Swedish government conducted a survey and one of the questions asked high school students which religion they would like to choose. And 60% answered Buddhism.[1] The number of Buddhists in the Netherlands rose nearly 1,500% (from 16,000 to over 250,000) from 1998 to 2009.[2] The number of Buddhists has been steadily rising in Asia too. In Taiwan the number of Buddhists grew from 5.5 million in 2001 to 8 million in 2008. During that same seven year period the number of Buddhists in India grew from about 1% to 3.25% which was about 35 million in 2008.[3]
In the fast-paced world of modern life, many are becoming attracted to the meditation teachings found in Buddhism. For some it is for that reason and one or more of the following:
1. The Logic of The Four Noble Truths (the logic of a teaching based on the causes and cures to our everyday suffering).
2. The Compatibility of the Sciences with Buddha’s teachings.
3. The teachings are compatible with and talk about life on other planets.
4. The teachings on the evils of slavery and the caste system.
5. The teachings on the equality of women.
6. The recognition of humans as members of the Animal Kingdom.
7. A meditation technique beyond relaxation, but also for wisdom. There is a clear path for spiritual and personal development.
8. The longevity (health) of the Buddha (killed at the age of 80 from bad mushrooms during an age when life expectancy was 35 to 40 at best).
9. There is no blind faith or unthinking worship in Buddhism.
10. Questions are encouraged and investigation into the teachings is allowed and important.
11. Buddhism teaches to take full responsibility for all of our actions.
12. It can be approached, realized, and experienced, with immediate results.
13. It teaches that followers of other religions are also rewarded in the afterlife.
14. The teachings emphasize compassion, tolerance, and moderation.
15. Humility of the Buddha
ah.. hah …,
so that’s all it is …,
good health,
compassion,
science,
equanimity,
debate & humility
“I have such confidence in the Blessed One that I believe there has not been nor ever will be nor exists at present another ascetic or brahmin more knowledgeable than the Blessed One with respect to enlightenment.”
The Buddha responds, “Lofty indeed is this bellowing utterance of yours, Sariputta, you have roared a definitive, categorical lion’s roar. Have you now, Sariputta, encompassed with your mind the minds of all the Arahants, the Perfectly Enlightened Ones, arisen in the past and known thus: Those Blessed Ones were of such virtue, or of such qualities, or such wisdom?” Sariputta responds, “No, venerable sir.” (Samyutta Nikaya 47.12)
In that discourse, instead of agreeing with the bold praise of the ‘Buddha’ given to him by Sariputta, the Buddha basically asks him, “Have you met every Buddha of the past, present, and future? Then how can you call me the best that ever was or will ever be?” Such was the amazing wisdom, the intelligence, and humility of the Buddha of our time.
The ‘Buddha mind’ is a philosophical construct that exists at the moment when we transcend our ‘self’ to become, ‘selfless’, compassionate thoughts, words and actions to relieve the suffering of others, for the benefit of all sentient beings. To challenge this buddha ‘mindfulness’, is the impermanence of all thoughts we adopt, therefore it requires regular practice to maintain/sustain the buddha mind.
The embodiment of Buddha is the potential of all beings …,
(while intolerant faiths are failing global society, the buddha-dharma path is delivering a real enlightened vision, along with practical methods to realize tangible spirituality)
People need conversion, from Bad to Good!
“Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.”
- Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein, The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press, 1954
My simple religion is _ Be practically kind to all, help each other, do not do bad things that will harm anybody, Do good things that will bring happiness and peace to this globe, And lastly but not the least Pray for World Peace and not for your own luck and welfare. This is because all of us want Happiness and Peace mey na.
In our country we have already 2 Gods at present who is practically serving our people who are in great needs. And people are happy and respects them most with gratitude. So try to know them and start praying for them. Do not go out looking for God, True God is within YOU if you follow my above directions.
Bhutan has Buddha and Buddhism…
Buddhism believes in ‘karma’ meaning that based on one’s action one reaps what one sows. They believe in Gods as higher beings but not the creator of all beings. Buddhism does not direct us to follow things blindly. It is spiritual as well as scientific in the core. It talks of benefit of all beings – insects, animals, humans (all). It does not believe in luring or forcing anyone. It is strong in its content and needs no such help. Trying to destroy such peaceful and compassionate Dharma is unwarranted and being short sighted.
Buddha, Buddhism, & Bhutan is beautiful…
Hi to all!
My honest requests to all please do what you want to do, as long as if you’re concave is not blaming on you!
Please do not fight about religions and do not judges others what they are doing, every human has to give their own accounts after death!
Best regards
Rams
I am Buddhist by birth, but I respect all religions since the goal for all is same “Peace”. In would not understand why people do not mind their own business and leave other alone. I believe more of Buddhism beacuse its teaching of self realization and concept of causes and action is inspiring more than any other religions.
As is Buddhism there is no god and no short cut to heaven. If you go by saying god helps those who help themselves; you got to help yourself to go to heaven. And it is through ones effort and understanding, awakening and self realization through true nature of mind that you discover hell and heaven you witness here are the result of causes and action provided in Buddhist simply philosophy.
The big problem for Bhutan is communual unrest in rising especially given the intolerant nature of christinity. The world biggest problem of terorrisim is the product of different faiths: peoples wanting to establish their belief.
In the national interest, the govt. should track the those converter and punish seriously. The informant should be established to check on their network. It is the resposibility of all concerned Bhutanese to see that we inform our community on this issue of inroad of different faith into Bhutan and social evil coming with these faiths, because lesser the faith more the peace.
hello,
Bhutan is a buddhist country and we r very much proud calling ourselves buddhist..We are not an atheist wanting to embrace another religion and for GODS SAKE please stop bothering our innocent Bhutanese.
When foreigners realise the essence of buddhism, there is no point for a Bhutanese to turn their faith to outsiders.
Therefore, Bhutan Buddhism and Buddha is awesome!!!!!!